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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 700-4 is making God-awful noises from the front end. I tried uploading a video I took, but this forum doesn't allow it. It is not coming from the brakes. I jacked up the front end and turned the wheels. The loud squeeking/squealing noise seems to be coming from the front differential, and is consistent on both sides. It does NOT make the noise in 4WD mode - Only 2WD. I bought the machine new in June, and it has 350 miles on it. I already took it to the dealer once before when I started hearing noises, but when they had it, the noises weren't there (I went back down to the dealer and drove it with them, and sure enough - no noise). I'm pretty disappointed in this machine, as I bought a new Honda so I wouldn't have issues like this.

Has anyone experienced any noise like this?
 

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2018 Honda Pioneer 1000
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591 Posts
For this forum, you upload your video to a hosting place like YouTube, free, and then post a link here.
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I watched your video you posted at the other place.
Like @Remington asked you at the other site, have you checked the diff fluid?
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My next question would be. Have you shown that video to your dealer?
If you did, and they do not help, FIND a different dealer!
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And, like @Remington asked you over there, post back what you find.
Maybe it will help someone else.
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Have a good day
 

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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
For this forum, you upload your video to a hosting place like YouTube, free, and then post a link here.
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I watched your video you posted at the other place.
Like @Remington asked you at the other site, have you checked the diff fluid?
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My next question would be. Have you shown that video to your dealer?
If you did, and they do not help, FIND a different dealer!
.
And, like @Remington asked you over there, post back what you find.
Maybe it will help someone else.
.
Have a good day
Thanks, Mark.

I deliberately did not check the diff fluid, figuring if it went back to the dealer, they couldn't say I didn't properly tighten it down. Just being over-cautious, I guess. But, if it was low on diff fluid, wouldn't it make the same noise in 4WD?

I will definitely update both sites on this one. I appreciate having these forums available to ask questions and dialog with people who have more experiences that I've accumulated with this machine since June. I bought it down where I live in southern Michigan, but I keep at our place in Northern Michigan, which is about 300 miles away. So, I'll probably drag it back down home in a week or two.

Chris

Chris
 

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2018 Honda Pioneer 1000
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591 Posts
You are welcome, Glad to help when I can.
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"if it was low on diff fluid, wouldn't it make the same noise in 4WD? "
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Actually, that question is probably your answer. Low oil.
Only when you are in 4 wheel drive mode does the front differential ring gear turn.
The ring gear is the large gear in a differential and it sits in the oil, even if the oil is low.
When the ring gear is turning, it is splashing oil up onto the axle shaft seals/bearing to lube your squeak.
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But, but, the axle shafts turn all the time, wouldn't that spread the oil?
Yes, the axle shafts do turn all the time, and yes they do spread the oil, IF the oil is at the correct level.
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Product Font Parallel Auto part Circle

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If the oil is low, the axle shafts gears do not sit in the oil.
Only the ring gear does, and it only turns in 4 wheel drive.
Automotive tire Human body Automotive lighting Jaw Rim

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Hope that makes sense.
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Edit to add
I went back and listened more to your vids. That is not a seal squeaking.
Truthfully, it sounds like rocks stuck to the brake pads rubbing the rotor. Yes, it happens.
If you are sure that is not the problem, then it sounds like dry bearings.
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Have a good day
 

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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are welcome, Glad to help when I can.
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"if it was low on diff fluid, wouldn't it make the same noise in 4WD? "
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Actually, that question is probably your answer. Low oil.
Only when you are in 4 wheel drive mode does the front differential ring gear turn.
The ring gear is the large gear in a differential and it sits in the oil, even if the oil is low.
When the ring gear is turning, it is splashing oil up onto the axle shaft seals/bearing to lube your squeak.
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But, but, the axle shafts turn all the time, wouldn't that spread the oil?
Yes, the axle shafts do turn all the time, and yes they do spread the oil, IF the oil is at the correct level.
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View attachment 41478
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If the oil is low, the axle shafts gears do not sit in the oil.
Only the ring gear does, and it only turns in 4 wheel drive.
View attachment 41479
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Hope that makes sense.
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Edit to add
I went back and listened more to your vids. That is not a seal squeaking.
Truthfully, it sounds like rocks stuck to the brake pads rubbing the rotor. Yes, it happens.
If you are sure that is not the problem, then it sounds like dry bearings.
.
Have a good day
Thank you for that great explanation! That makes a lot of sense. I did not check for rocks in the brakes for 2 reasons:

1. It does not squeak in 4WD. I would think 2WD/4WD would not make difference to the brake rotor and pads.
2. I went to a neighbor's house and parked it in their dirt driveway. It was not making noises before that. When I left, it started to squeak, and got progressively worse as I went down the road. It was a dirt road, however.
3. Back at home, I took one wheel off the ground at a time, so while one was spinning, the other was stuck on the ground immovable. The exact same noise was made, and the chances of both brakes having rocks stuck and making the exact same sound would be pretty slim. I got a close as I could to the differential and rotor separately. It seems as though it's coming from the diff, though I know that noises can travel up connected parts.

So now you got me wondering. In the interest of thoroughness, I'll pull the front wheels off when I go back up next weekend and look to be sure. I'm not that lucky to have it be that easy of a fix, but as I don't want to drag it 300 miles home and then 300 miles back up due to something as simple as a couple stuck rocks, I'll check to be sure.

Thanks again, Mark. If you were closer to Michigan, I'd buy you some beer!

Chris
 

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2018 Honda Pioneer 1000
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591 Posts
Anything cold usually works for me. haha
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While researching on the other site, found quite a few owners that said the 700 front brakes squeal often.
Sometimes just from dust.
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So, before you pull the wheels, jack one side up like you did before.
Cut a piece of cardboard that will kind of fit. Put it, and your head in the middle, and turn the wheel.
Your ears should be able to tell you where the noise is coming from.
Something like this.......No fair laughing at my powerpoint skills... hahaha
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Font Line Circle Parallel Diagram

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IF it is a brake squeal and not a bearing, a sort of a possible answer to your comment.
"1. It does not squeak in 4WD. I would think 2WD/4WD would not make difference to the brake rotor and pads. "
Background:
Most automobiles with disc brakes, actually have a slight wobble to the rotor.
That wobble pushes the brake pad back away from the rotor just a little, and your car does not squeak.
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I am not for certain, but I do not think our Hondas wobble. I think they are straight running.
With nothing to pull or push the brake pads back away from the rotor, they are in constant contact.
Until you get up to speed and maybe vibration makes a slight gap, or they glaze just enough to not squeak.
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Normally, in 2 wheel drive, your front rotors are pulled through the brake pad because they are connected to the front wheel. In 4 wheel drive, they are pushed through the brake pads because they are connected to the axle.
But, but...they are all connected together WTF? hahaha
Yes, but just that slight difference may be enough to rub differently on the brakes.
Here is an exaggerated example of what I mean.
Font Rectangle Parallel Circle Electric blue

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Heck, maybe its like what @mudwing said from the other place and you are rubbing the wear bar and need front pads already.
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Dang, this became a long post. hahaha
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Have a good day
 

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2018 Honda Pioneer 1000
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CRAP......., found this at the other place.
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@Hondatech posted it over there.
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I'm hoping it is still just some dang dust/rocks, or you just need brake pads.
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Have a good day
 

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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
CRAP......., found this at the other place.
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@Hondatech posted it over there.
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I'm hoping it is still just some dang dust/rocks, or you just need brake pads.
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Have a good day
I can't thank you enough for all this information. After reading the other site, I'm really going to pray to the Honda Gods that it is dust/rocks in the brakes. If the front axles need to be removed and greased after 350 miles, then I fear it becomes a regular maintenance item after that.

Wish I was back Up North now to investigate this more now.

Chris
 

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2018 Honda Pioneer 1000
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591 Posts
Hey, Chris make sure you read what @gissle65 posted over there, post #18.
"loosen the front diff pry up with 2x4. Retighten the front diff. That is what fixed my 2021 700-4"
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Might get by with an easy fix, if you are lucky. 🤞
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Have a good day
 

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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Update - After my morning hunt, I started working on the Pioneer. Pulled the brake pads out all together, rotated the spindle, and - exact same noise. Put the pads and tire back on, lowered it, checked the diff fluid - could not see any. Pics attached. On my way Up North, I stopped at the dealer in Gaylord and bought 1 bottle (8 oz), and it took the whole bottle without coming through the opening. Tested for noise - Exact same noise. So, now I'm figuring the front diff is trashed. After 8 full ounces, it still isn't full.

When I took it in to the dealer I bought it from for a "noise in the front end" concern a couple months back they couldn't find anything, I drove it around there parking lot, and I could not get it to replicate. They said they checked all the fluids, and everything was good. I might try to the 2x4 procedure tomorrow between the morning and afternoon hunts, but I really think I'd be wasting my time. I do think I'll take it to the dealer in Gaylord, as it's 45 minutes away instead of 4.5 hours. If it's a warranty job at this point, it shouldn't matter. They are backed up 1 month out from the day you drop it off. I'm so disgusted with this machine right now, I don't want to ride in it. It will suck not having the plow for my driveway, though.

Side note - even the guys in the dealer who listened to my video said it sounded like rocks between the pad and rotor.

Chris
 

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· Registered
2018 Honda Pioneer 1000
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591 Posts
If it was that low on fluid, I'm with you, I do not think the 2x4 trick would help.
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Damn man, that sucks.....................
 

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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update - I dragged the Pioneer all the way back to the dealer where I bought it in Monroe. They looked at it today, and determined it was low on diff oil, even after I put 8 ounces in it. They can't find a leak anywhere, so they believe that it came from the factory that way, and admitted they missed it on the PDI. They flushed the diff and inspected the internals with a scope and believe that the gears do not appear to be damaged from the low oil condition. It is documented on the work order, so should I have some issues down the road with diff wear, I would have that to argue with Honda on. I drove it around home, and it sounds and drives like it should.

I'm glad the noise is gone, but I am worried about the wear and tear on the gears from running 350 miles with low oil. If I keep it, I definitely will buy the extended warranty. I'm just worried it will always be in the back of my mind that the gears have more wear on them than they should, and every new noise I hear will obviously be the diff coming apart. And these Honda's definitely make a lot of different noises.

Chris
 

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Gears and bearing are fairly forgiving, especially when there was no load/no pressure, they were just free spinning because it was the front diff. You have the documentation, so now if anything goes wrong, they should be the ones to fix it.
With that being said, do like the rest of us do and "RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!" haha :D
I have had many people ask me "You ride that a lot, what if it breaks down?" I tell them when it does, because it will, I will fix it and then.....Ride on....
I did not buy a piece of yard art to just sit and look at, granted I think our Hondas do look great.
On the other spectrum, I'm not doing what this guy does either, Honda Pioneer 500 SxS goes Roof Deep in the River!, even though that looks BAD ASS! haha
Have had my Honda a little over a year, and added over 1,200 miles.
Many of those with the wife by my side, adding memories. (y)
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Have a good day
 

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2022 Pioneer 700-4
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Gears and bearing are fairly forgiving, especially when there was no load/no pressure, they were just free spinning because it was the front diff. You have the documentation, so now if anything goes wrong, they should be the ones to fix it.
With that being said, do like the rest of us do and "RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!" haha :D
I have had many people ask me "You ride that a lot, what if it breaks down?" I tell them when it does, because it will, I will fix it and then.....Ride on....
I did not buy a piece of yard art to just sit and look at, granted I think our Hondas do look great.
On the other spectrum, I'm not doing what this guy does either, Honda Pioneer 500 SxS goes Roof Deep in the River!, even though that looks BAD ASS! haha
Have had my Honda a little over a year, and added over 1,200 miles.
Many of those with the wife by my side, adding memories. (y)
.
Have a good day
Thanks, Mark. The video is awesome! I wouldn't necessarily do that to mine, but it is cool to see. Once I get over my initial frustration, I know I'm going to love it. We bought the Honda for a reason after looking at other SXS's. I had an older 2012 RZR Trail, and after my wife and I went trail riding with friends in northern Michigan, she absolutely loved the whole experience, so we sold the RZR to buy the new Honda. It does really well on the trails, and it's a workhorse around our property. The RZR was really only good for trail riding and it was only a 2-seater. Now, we can take friends out with us, which adds to the fun and memories.

I'm going to drive the hell out of it at home until I take it back Up North next week to make sure everything is OK. Thank you again for your help and insight into my issues. It's people like you that make these forums great sources of info and idea sharing.

Chris
 
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